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shotgun. the nra is calling for armed guards in skols. that is their plan to prevent gun violence in schools. but coming up next hour i'll talk with one virginia lawmaker who has another plan. he says arm the teachers. thanks so much for watching today. i'll see you back here at the top of the hour. i'm randi kaye. your bottom line starts right now. 20 million, that's how many gups could be sold in this country this year. it's big business but the conversation is changing. good morning, i'm christine romans. it generates billions for our economy. 89 guns per 100 people in this country, according to an annual research by the small arms survey. take a look at that rate compared to the rest of the world. the next highest is yemen at 55 guns per hundred people and
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switer land at 46 and then all the way down to just one tanzania. no one is close to the u.s. where does the burning desire to own a gun come from? second amendment. let's refresh our memories. a well regulated militia being necessary to the securitiative free state, the right of people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. throughout our history, it's been a part of our fabric, the minutemen took up arms to over throw the british rule and earn freedom. now memorialized in statues like this one in massachusetts. the west was one in the 1800s with the help of firearms. in the 20th century it was cops and robbers, mobsteres, bootlegers. all of them were armed. right? the history books will not be glorifying any of this. cities where mass murderers have taken lives are now household names, columbine, aurora and now newtown. our second amendment rights may be inked on the most important document this country has, its
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intention was not -- was to protect, not to hurt or kill innocent people. for all you gun lovers, i get it. i grew up in iowa, shot my first gun with my grandpa when i was 8 years old. i get it. i am saying it's time to talk about what makes us the gun culture that we are. jeff toobin is cnn legal analyst and christian am pan pour is also here, abc's global affairs anchor. this is rooted in the second amendment, jeff. you say it will be determined as much by politics as by law. is gun culture driving politics, politics driving gn culture? does it change? does the second amendment change from here? >> it sure does. the second amendment itself has not changed more than 200 years. but the interpretation of the second amendment has changed dramatically. for more than 100 years, the interpretation was that state militias, that mysterious first clause, they were the only ones who had the right to bear and
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keep arms. in 2008 the supreme court of the united states said individuals have a right to keep and bear arms. they were talking about handguns in the home. how expansive that right is remains somewhat murky at this point. the idea that you have a constitutional right to bear arms is a legitimate one for better or worse now. that's something that politicians will have to take into consideration as they decide what to do. >> you've pointed to incidents like what happened here in newtown, what happened in australia, scotland and how they moved quickly and changed their laws. >> very quickly. in 1996, children as young as those who were slaughtered in sandy hook elementary school were gunned down in scotland. it was covered all over the world. >> that's right. >> including here in the united states. >> we said, look, other countries have gun violence. t t too. it was very rare to see gun violence in another country. >> very rare. they backed that up by fines, by
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prison terms and lo and behold, the gun crime violence did not go down in the initial one or two years afterwards. but by the time of 2002 until 2011 or 12, gun violence in the uk has plummeted by 44%. you simply cannot argue with facts and statistics like that. in australia, a massacre in 1996, inleapt into action. and in a consensus, they instituted a ban on the sale, import, ownership of semi automatics, what's known as assault rifles and pistols and again the gun crime plummeted like a stone. and harvard university did a really important study. they looked at massacres in the 18 years before the new laws. there were 13. 102 people were killed. after the new laws in australia, not one multiple shooting. facts don't lie. >> but they don't have a second amendment. they don't have the second amendment.
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>> it's not just the second amendment, though. we're in a political moment here where two forces are in tremendous conflict. one is this national revulsion at what happened. the polls have moved very quickly. >> six in ten said they would like to see the kind of gun used to kill those children, that bushmaster rifle outlawed. >> absolutely. that's a real phenomenon and you can see it in the reaction to even some politicians. however support for guns in the congress is real. it's enduring. and when the heat of the moment passes and the media focus changes, you can be sure that the supporters of gun rights will be there, fighting every step of the way, especially in the republican party. >> this is not about freedom. in my view, looking at the united states, it cannot be framed as a -- an attempt to draw back freedoms. this isn't about taking away people's guns, their shotguns for hunting, sporting guns or self protection handguns. it's about limiting the kind of
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military assault rifles that i've spent my career watching the effect of on the battlefield. >> right. jeff and christiane, stay right there. we'll have more next. just got "blacked out." [ brother ] but it's the family party! really jingles your bells, doesn't it? my gift to you! the capital one venture card! for any flight, any time! that's double miles you can actually use! how illuminating. what's in your wallet? let me guess, am i on the naughty list again? ho ho ho!
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welcome back. we're here with jeff toobin and christiane amanpour. would it take a landmark supreme court ruling to change anything? >> you know, i'm sorry to give you a vague answer here, but this 2008 opinion, the heller decision, which was about handguns, that has not really been extended -- no one exactly knows where it goes from there. >> right. >> if obama has more appointments and if the conservatives don't have the power that they do now, that could be contained. it could be applied only to
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handguns. but if president romney had had the opportunity or president paul ryan in a few years gets the opportunity to appoint justices to the supreme court, that could be expanded. the limits of the second amendment are not clear at this point. the supreme court has not really spoken on it. that's one of the reasons why it's so important, who appoints whom to the supreme court. >> at what point is gun violence in america a public health threat, right? you talk about the freedom, the freedoms we have in this country where the public health risk, 30 some thousand people killed every year. cdc says it's $38 billion, the cost of society of gun violence. >> what's so astonishing about the debate of gun violence, it's different from the '90s when i first started covering this issue. you have people arguing very seriously now that the way to stop or limit gun violence is to have more guns. give guns to teachers.
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give guns to security guards. more guns. that argument was too ridiculous to even be uttered in the '90s. now senators, governors are saying that's the way to protect more people. >> bulletproof backpacks for kids. >> you know it's just common sense. imagine if somebody had had a gun in an audience in a darkened movie theater in aurora. are you roadwayel really going to start spraying in the dark? police officials who killed bystanders when they took on criminals at the empire state building? come on, these are trained marksmen. >> think back to your teachers in elementary school and grade school. how many would you like them to see armed ? >> we had tornado drills not lockdown drills. that's how much america has changed. >> in its heart and its gut, america has probably changed in this last week. this was a red line by anybody's account. these were babies. this was a biblical slaughter of the innocence.
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and i want to know whether this is the kind of society that we are going to accept for ourselves and for our children. >> we're going to have a test. >> right. >> president obama is going to propose something. he has marked down a line in the sand that he is going to do this in january. so we will have a test, a new congre, new house, new senate and he'll see what they do. >> joe manchin, senator from west virginia, upstanding member of the nra, heed with me on monday and made one other interview and pushed the national dialogue along. in michigan we interviewed a lob lobbyist for guns who was writing this bill about concealed carry permits, et cetera. this week in the aftermath of sandy hook the governor of michigan, a republican, has vetoed that, will not sign it into law. you know, it takes everybody. it can't be vilifying one side and glorifying another. it has to be a consensus. everybody has to come to the table and put everything on the table. >> christiane, jeff, thank you so much. we'll see if we're talking about this again in january. >> we'll see. >> we better be. it's on us.
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>> thanks both of you. the gun business is incredibly profitable, estimated 20 million firearms will be sold this year and gun shops report a surge in gun demand after newtown, selling out of the ar-15 style rifle like the one used in the shooting. gun sales have doubled since 2002 as the economy has stagnated gun sales have soared. there are more gun retailers than there are supermarkets and mcdonald's locations in america combined. profits for gun and ammunition industry are expected to reach nearly $1 billion this year. smith and wesson alone made $38 million in its most recent quarter and freedom group, the parent company of the rifle used to kill teachers and children in connecticut brought in a quarter billion dollars in profit last year. industry analyst i spoke to says semi automatic rifle sales are booming. >> there's been a sharp consumer
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preference shift in the last several years to tactical rifles from the traditional hunting rifles. >> i see. >> yeah, because they're lightweight, easy to shoot, ergonomically superior and have a high capacity. >> $17 million on federal election funding this year, nra finally broke its silence friday saying gun laws don't work and we should arm schools. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> we're talking here about the business of guns, right? of course, arming schools would mean even more gun sales. there are more than 130,000 public and private schools in this country. we invited a number of gun manufacturers and gun retailers as well as some publications and trade magazine editors to appear on the show, all of whom -- all of whom declined or did not respond. some teachers in this country were shocked to discover
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they invested in the very weapon used to perpetrate the school shooting. teachers. do you know what's in your portfolio? [ woman ] dear cat, your hair mixes with pollen and dust. i get congested. but now, with zyrtec-d®, i have the proven allergy relief of zyrtec®, plus a powerful decongestant. zyrtec-d® lets me breath freer, so i can love the air. [ male announcer ] zyrtec-d®. behind the pharmacy counter. no prescription needed.
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when a private equity company whose soul goal is to get out of the gun business, something has changed. freedom group, ten companies including bushmaster and other ammo accessory makers. bushmaster rifle was used to kill those teachers and children in connecticut. they said, quote, it is apparent that sandy hook tragedy with his a watershed event that has raised the national debate on
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gun control to an unprecedented level. it is not our role to take positions or attempt to shape our influence the gun control policy debate. there are, however, actions that whoa as a firm can take. in a horrible irony, it turns out that teachers in california are investors in bushmaster. california state teachers retirement system invested $600 million in cerberus, that private equity firm. that means the teachers retirement fund owns 2.4% of the freedom group, parent of bushmaster. it is now reviewing that investment and other potential holdings in gun companies. chief investment officer at the teachers retirement system. thank you so much for talking with us and walking us through this this morning. clearly you must have heard from teachers over the past week. >> yes, we have, through e-mail, phone calls and social media. >> what are they telling you? >> well, obviously, they're very distraught, as we were. and, you know, i was devastated when we realized we had this investment in our portfolio. it's extremely small. that's why we hadn't focused in
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on it, in particular. and their reaction, obviously, is of great concern. >> i should point out there are a lot of retired california teachers. you are one of the biggest sort of investors in the country. you have a very big, broad portfolio. teachers investing in weapons that perpetrated a mass murder. are you going to get out of investments like that now? >> well, it's not a matter of optics. it's a matter of being responsible investors and we want to meet the needs of our members and you're right, we have 850,000 active and retired teachers in california that we cover. and so we are definitely taking a lock at gun manufacturers. it's on our investment committee's going to evaluate particularly guns that are banned in california and identify any exposure we might have in our portfolio. and then evaluate whether we should own these companies or not. >> did you talk to cerberus before the decision, tell the
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freedom group? >> we did. we engaged with them monday of the week once we realized the company of in their portfolio. the company is less than 1% of their overall private equity portfolio. so it's a fairly small investment, as well. we had several conversations with them, and we applaud the decision that they made. >> so you were working with them before they made that decision to sell the company. and you say it's a small part of the portfolio. i will tell you, it's a profitable business. thank you very much. we'll have you on after january when the investment committee decides what to do with investments in gun manufacturers. thank you. >> thank you. ceo and editor-in-chief of "business insider," henry, when you invest, are you giving money to a company because, a, you think they're going to be profitable, you'll get a return on that investment. but that money you give them is used to build and develop and operate a company. >> that's right. and sometimes you're not
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investing directly, an ipo you're giving the company money in the free stock market. you're simply buying shares from somebody else. but you are supporting the company and supporting the stock price. and socially responsible investing, a lot of people have been looking at this over the last ten years saying, look, do we really want to help cigarette companies and gun companies and other companies that are oil companies that may be operating in regions of the world and doing it in a way that we don't like. there's a whole school of investing that's come up saying, you know what, we don't. >> and no, we don't. here's the thing -- if you're investing, are you investing in morals or because you want to make money? >> i think it's a personal decision. if you talk to people on wall street, they will say, no, they just have a fiduciary duty. all they are concerned with is the profits and return to shareholders. and it's somebody else's business to figure out whether the business a company is in or the way they're doing business is appropriate. but again, some people like cerberus and california teachers are say, you know what, that's not good enough. >> i heard two reactions this week among people talking about
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the stocks of these gun manufacturers. some are publicly traded stocks. they had a tough start to the week. people either said i'm going to try and buy them, the gun demand is never going to go away. others said, how do i make sure i don't have these in my portfolio. it's hard to find if you have them in your 401(k). >> it is. it depends if you invest in individual stocks, it's relatively easy to control. then there's the debate about what is the bank doing in its business, even though i support banking, are they being responsible. you really can go very deep in socially responsible investing. then if you own a mutual fund, often it's hundreds of stocks. you've got to look carefully. and that's why there are some funds that say, look, we built our portfolio out of companies that aren't tobacco companies or gun companies or oil companies -- >> if you can't sleep at night investing in a gun company or giving money to a tobacco company, you can find mutual funds that screen out the so-called vice stocks. the assets managed by the socially responsible funds have nearly doubled. we have the graphic, doubled in the last two years. but the performance is mixed.
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it's a risk. you look at the flip side, shares of gun, alcohol, gambling companies, all up big this year. >> that's right. it's very much period to period. some of the studies that looked at the, say, socially responsible stocks overall have performed well or at least on parity. in other periods they haven't. it turns out that selling cigarettes is a great business. people are addicted to cigarettes, they buy them. that's why the tobacco companies have been great investments in decades. so it is a tough decision. >> fewer people are using cigarettes in america today. >> in america, but not in the world which is why tobacco companies are still doing incredibly well. >> more people using guns. >> yes. >> the trends are different for those two. interesting. henry, thank you very much, nice to see you. "business insider." 47% of americans say they have at least one gun in their home. america, what are we so afraid of? why do we need these guns? i'll rant on that next. [ fishing rod casting line, marching band playing ] [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life.
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america, what are we so afraid of? there are more than 300 million
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guns in this country. so far this year, there have been 16.8 million applications to buy one. those background checks, one measure of potential sales, they've doubled in the past ten years. doubled. think about that. during roughly the same time the economy stagnated, we faced the worst financial crisis since the great depression, and median family net worth plummeted. but gun sales have soared and are still soaring. so today this is less of a rant and more of a question. america, what are we so afraid of? in the richest country in the world, a damaged, evil soul can turn himself in to a weapon of mass destruction. he can take a military-style weapon and kill an entire first grade class. that's what we should be afraid of. i get that we're a gun country. guns are so mainstream it's part of our vernacular. i get it, i embrace it. we go ballistic. we pull the trigger on a purchase. we watch "top shots" "sons of guns" on the discovery channel. one of our favorite christmas movies, "a christmas story," is
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about a little boy and the b.b. gun he so despreterately desire >> there it is, the holy grail of christmas gifts. the red rider 200 shot range model air rifle. >> that's the gun culture i grew with up. when did something so pure about america, her pioneer roots, her birth in revolution, when did that change? america, what are we so afraid of that we're armed to the teeth and killing our children? we've gone from red rider b.b. guns to military-style semiautomatic rifles that you can buy at the same store where you buy your children's soccer cleats. have it have to be all or nothing? the second amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. how far do we take it? bullets designed to stay in the bodies of those children? military-style rifles designed for very rapid fire? maybe a missile in your back yard or your own predator drone. obviously there are limits.

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CNN December 22, 2012 6:30am-7:00am PST

News/Business. Christine Romans. Financial advice. New.

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